Chapter 8 Reader Response

Hi Mrs. Anrnaboldi! Hi English Class!

My first instinctual reaction to Chapter 8 relates to the differences between my final views of Gatsby and Nick's final understanding. By this point in the novel, at his death, I've accumulated a sizable condemnation for Gatsby, for his criminal history, his vain imaginings and moral flaws, and for his heartlessness after Myrtle's death. I feel that throughout the novel, including all of the parties and actions of the upper class, Nick (along with Fitzgerald) defines the 1920s, along with Gatsby, by deplorable qualities: lasciviousness, cynicism, and cruelty. However, in Gatsby's final appearances in the novel, Nick conveys his admiration for him by saying that Gatsby is "worth the whole damn bunch put together." (154) Nick recognizes that Gatsby is capable of achieving great things with his power to dream and his will to move forward. However, he believes that because his dream focused solely on Daisy, he lost the entire social ‘game’. Nick, then, regards Daisy as an undesirable product of upper-class, societal laws.

Also, the pool served as a remarkable symbol with which to end the chapter. Gatsby’s Butler says he’s going to drain the pool because summer is nearly over and the leaves of the autumn season are beginning to contaminate it. Even though it is clear to Gatsby and to the reader that Daisy has formed an indissoluble bond of reliance and social dignity with Tom, he still refuses to let go of the past, to allow time to control him, which is why he does not succumb to the seasons and uses up his final moments in his pool. With this particular death, I felt a strong correlation to Macbeth’s final moments, and how both of these characters refuse to surrender in the face of death, a mark of true perseverance and proof of the strength of the American Dream.

-Shervin Rezaei

Chapter 8

I have still to read chapter 9, so I will write my journal on chapter 8 alone.
First of all, I was so sad for Gatsby. I've always loved him and thought he was a teddy bear, so the reflection on the demise of his and Daisy's relationship disheartened me. Also, from the description of Gatsby's relationship with Daisy, he clearly sees her as more of a dream and an object, rather than someone he truly loves. She is described as "the first 'nice' girl" Gatsby ever met, so that must have given him some sort of hope towards love. Then, his love grows with material items and the fact that other men have loved her, rather than her personality. "He felt married to her, that was all" (149). Marriage does not necessarily include love, but the dependency of two people. Therefore, Gatsby and Daisy's relationship seems to be based on the image and the dream and the stability of it, rather than true feelings. This is also confirmed by the fact that Daisy did not marry Gatsby-she was not stable with him financially, and by the fact that she stays with Tom, showing that her feelings are not fully there. The best moments are also depicted as the times when she would kiss his shoulder or he would touch her fingers, purely physical actions, rather than discussion, or how he liked when her voice was huskier when she was sick. Gatsby focuses more on her physical aspects, rather than care about the the fact that she was sick. Basically, Gatsby and Daisy's relationship does not seem legitimate. Their love is based on silly actions and details.

-Brittany Bishop

Thoughts on the End

- I was disappointed that Nick was unable to interact with Daisy after the accident, and after Gatsby's death. I wanted to know what she would have said about Gatsby, maybe reveal how she truly felt about him. I guess it makes sense though; Daisy was nothing more than a dream for Gatsby, a being that was above him in every way, and she could not be bothered to attend his funeral. Nick comments that she is careless, but I believe she was a product of her society, and had no other idea of how to act.

- Nick's new found disgust with the East shows what Fitzgerald thinks of the rich Easterners and their ideals. The idea that none of the Mid-Westerners, Nick, Jordan, Tom, and Daisy, would never be able to fit in with the Eastern society is a comment on society as a whole, how different groups are always striving to climb the social ladder, only to find out that there is nothing but pain and sadness once reached.

- The green light. A symbol for the American dream, what Gatsby hopes to one day reach. Riches and Daisy are his goals, and despite never getting closer, his continuous optimism makes him believe he can obtain them. Gatsby himself is a symbol for the hollowness of the American dream, that having all the money in the world doesn't matter. One can convince his or herself that they are happy, but the American is only happy when he or she no longer has to strain themselves for it, like Gatsby on the boat with Cody. That was the only time Gatsby felt truly satisfied with his life, while the rest of his story is a commentary of his failures to reach that high place again.

Daisy and Tom

Daisy and Tom, no matter what Gatsby thinks, really seem to be made for each other. Tom cheats on Daisy with Myrtle and Daisy cheats on Tom with Gatsby. Each one has their lover convinced that they are about to leave they spouse, but neither actually plans on doing so. Gatsby is convinced that Daisy is about to run off with him and that she never actually loved her husband, and Myrtle is convinced that the only thing holding Tom back is that Daisy is a Catholic. Though neither Tom nor Daisy is especially happy in their marriage, they are each too worried about their social standing to give it up. Daisy and Tom are members the truly upper class, so much so that they cannot even enjoy Gatsby's party, something people enjoy going to because everyone goes. Daisy and Tom are beyond that need. By the end of chapter seven we see that, though their marriage may not be happy, there is "an unmistakable air of natural intimacy about" them. Their relationship is "natural" one way or another, and in the end that will probably be enough.

Avery's chapter six response

Until chapter six, I thought that Gatsby was one of the more genuine characters in the book, and one of the few who was where he wanted to be in life. After learning about his past, my opinion changed completely. Gatsby lives entirely in his own fantasy world. "He invented just the sort of Jay Gatsby that a seventeen-year-old would be likely to invent, and to this conception he was faithful to the end" (98). He began living based purely on what he thought his life ought to be, and he never made it back to reality. Now, he throws extravagant parties in which he doesn't participate, keeps a library of books he doesn't read, lives in an amazing mansion on the wrong Egg, and has an affair with an old love which he convinces himself will end with a happily ever after. Gatsby has built his life up around his own fantasies to the point where it almost seems true, but in the end it is still just that, a fantasy.

Comment on Michele's Reader Response (same issue as Jeff)

Hi Michele Abercrombie!
I noticed in your post that you mentioned Daisy's preference for a simpleminded man such as Tom instead of a complex character like Gatsby. I don't believe, however, that she recognizes Gatsby as a genuine lover, and I don't believe he's complex(unless you're saying his past is complex, in which case I misunderstood). I think she feels that Tom does not give her the attention she craves (this crave can be seen in the first scene when Daisy energetically attempts to entertain her guests) and because she feels that Gatsby does not comprehend her at all, especially when he thinks he has complete control of her heart. In this sense, Gatsby thinks of her as an object, a key to the majestic universe of East Egg.

I agree with you in a sense, though. I think Tom will change because of the recent Wilson incidents, but that Gatsby will continue to use the same methods as before to reignite his relationship with Daisy.

-Shervin Rezaei

Chapter 7

I was really moved by the way Gatsby behaves towards Daisy and how much he loves her. Although it was she who hit Myrtle, Gatsby took the blame in order to save Daisy. On the other hand Daisy seemed to have lost all concern for Gatsby after the accident and found herself more comfortable with her superficial, hypocritical husband than with the man that loved her truly and was willing to die for her. This is illustrates that Gatsby isn’t meant to be a part of Daisy’s wealthy, snobbish world as he values love over money. Tom, even though he is insistent that Daisy loves him and that he loves her, isn’t able to comprehend the value of love and the meaning it has for Gatsby. Daisy ‘loves’ Tom because he provides her with a comfortable wealthy lifestyle surrounded by people of her own class. For Tom, Daisy is a pretty girl of wealthy background that keeps him feeling secure and successful. Tom thinks of Daisy in a similar way that Daisy thinks of her daughter. Daisy has no real concern for her daughter, who is a mere doll-like being that Daisy has access to when she wants to show off to her friends. Daisy introduces her daughter to Gatsby and Nick saying, “That’s because your mother wanted to show you off…you dream, you. You absolute little dream”(177). In a similar way, Tom likes to know that Daisy is available whenever he needs her for support or pleasure but in actuality he has no feelings for her that go as deep as true love. As Nick portrayed at the beginning of the novel the rich are mostly made up of phonies. Daisy and her society are not evil, apathetic people; they are just childlike characters that enjoy the security of materialistic objects and people that they can relate to. For Daisy, Gatsby is too complex and alien for her to understand. His genuine love for her is too much for her too deal with and for that reason she turns back to the simpleminded Tom for security.